When Antonio and I first moved to Portugal, we were thinking of opening up an Airbnb here in Lisbon. We did all the research on how to start an Alojamento Local in Portugal and how to buy a house in Portugal. However, after speaking with my friends Ylvi & Koen, the owners of Casa René, a gorgeous restored historic home in Cacilhas (just a 10-minute ferry ride across from Lisbon and then a 5-minute walk to their place) that they have lovingly turned into a BnB (where I just took a small Lisbon staycation), I learned a ton more about both processes. They also give some great insights on things to watch out for when taking on a project like theirs. Check out the interview, schedule yourself a visit at their gorgeous place, and if you have questions, leave it in the comments…and make sure to check out Casa René. It’s lovely.
BLANCA: Why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourselves, where are you from originally?
KOEN: We are a couple from Belgium. I used to live around Antwerp, in a village a little bit outside of Antwerp, a big port town in Europe. We got to know each other in the gymnastics club for two years before love evolved because Ylvi is a bit younger. It was meant to be for us to be together. We have been together since 2000, in 2008 we got married, and now we are 12 years married.
BLANCA: Why did you choose to move to Portugal? How did you end up coming here?
KOEN: We were in the last grade of high school and it is common to do an exchange program. A lot of schools go to Italy, but the school where I was at the moment had their exchange program with Lisbon, a little bit outside of Lisbon, it’s called Paio Pires, it’s a little (little) town outside of Lisbon. As we explored we came here, we saw Lisbon which is such a great city plus wonderful weather, the climate, the people were so care-free, so I lost my heart here. I told myself – next year I will come back. The year after, I did; for an Erasmus program to learn Portuguese in the university, there is a special course for foreigners to learn Portuguese and I stayed here for a year, I was 19, it was the best year of my life. It was heaven. After that year, I wanted to stay, but I had no degree, no money, I had no future here. It was difficult, so I had to go back with a little pain in my heart. But it was still a dream to come. Then, I started to get to know Ylvi and we started to come to Portugal, so that’s how it started…the love of Portugal.
BLANCA: You are over in Cacilhas, for those who don’t know it…I live in Avenidas Novas which is Lisbon proper. We have a lot of tourists. When I first started coming to Lisbon it felt like Portugal, but now there are pockets where you can’t tell you’re in Portugal. I feel that here in Cacilhas you get a bit more of that Portuguese soul. When did you make the full move here? When did you buy the property? Why did you decide to move to Cacilhas versus Lisbon.
Koen: Well, we first learned about this area because with Ylvi we made a second trip in 2006. My first trip here was alone when I didn’t know Ylvi, and then we came here together to study again at the university. Then, we learned that in Lisbon it was very expensive to find an apartment. Here (in Cacilhas), we could find a very nice apartment with a nice terrace for a far better price, so we stayed here. That’s when we started to get to know Almada and Cacilhas. In 2010, we wanted to start looking for an apartment or a small house, but it was complicated. We wanted to live in a city, but we wanted a house with a small garden. It was a challenging search, but we knew this was the perfect location. It was close to Lisbon, close to the beach, you have all the advantages, and like you say, Lisbon is growing more and more busy. Like you said, here is it so close to Lisbon, you’re in Lisbon in 10 minutes, but still, it is a little more authentic. You have more of that Portuguese feeling.
We started looking in Cacilhas and we saw this wonderful building. We kept an eye on it for a long time because it was in ruins. We had said to ourselves, we will never do renovations, but the building was so beautiful, and the key reason that we went for it was the garden.
BLANCA: Your garden is gorgeous. I walked all day in Cacilhas and it was hot. But sitting here, you would never know it. There is a beautiful breeze, there are lemon trees, birds are singing all around. It is worth noting that we are on one of the busiest streets in Cacilhas, there are tons of restaurants, but I don’t hear anything but the birds right now.
KOEN: The garden is a little bit of a hidden gem here. It’s strange, but the house goes uphill from the street level. On the street level you have the office, on the first floor you have the patio, and on the second floor, you have the garden. The garden is surrounded by apartments, but open. On the other side, you also have apartments, but it is wide enough that you don’t feel trapped. It stops a lot of the wind and most sounds. It is strange to hear sounds around here. You have the birds, it’s the reason we decided on this building, the possibilities of the garden like you see now.
In the beginning, when the building was in ruins, for Portuguese norms it was bad to have a garden. Buildings are usually shared with around 8 people and that brings up the questions of who will handle the garden, etc. The way we approached it, looking at it as a place for tourism, it was a big advantage.
BLANCA: What you have done here, you have the main house and its facade, which is the original. You still have the year of the house on the door. Then you walk in and you walk up the stairs and you walk into this beautiful wooded room – which you told me is actually trompe-l’œil because it is hand-painted to look like wood. You have all these beautiful details carved into the ceiling – lobsters, fishes – then you walk into the patio which prepares you for the garden. It’s a lovely transition and all of the apartments seem to me to be based around the first garden – the patio – but then you have this mixture where you go between the traditional Portuguese style. For example, in all of the units – like the apartment I stayed at has all its original window doors, flooring; and although the outside areas are modern, they don’t clash. Did you have that in mind when you first started with the restoration?
KOEN: I have to be honest. All the design and ideas of the design; its beauty is thanks to the architects. They made it this beautiful. From the beginning, we saw this old building, and it was so beautiful; the staircase, the painted room, the ironworks. For us, it was unthinkable to remove it. We wanted to keep these elements to keep it authentic but on the other hand, we wanted to have all the comfort. It’s 2020, you don’t want to hear the neighbor walking around. We are from the north and we put a lot of effort into sound isolation. We wanted to have quiet. We put all the bedrooms on one side so that people would not hear people walking around in the living rooms. Our architects did an amazing job in achieving this balance between old and new.
BLANCA: How long did it take you from the moment you saw the building to complete the purchase process?
KOEN: It took a while. We saw it the first time I think in 2011/2012, because each year when we were on vacation, we took one or two days to look around. First we did a search on the internet and then we spoke with some real estate companies who showed us the places we wanted to see. It was by coincidence, we saw this building and it was so beautiful, so we decided to buy it.
But then the first problem occured.
It was the bank crisis of 2008, Portugal was very hard hit, so it was very difficult to find a loan to buy the property. But then, suddenly, Europe started to print money – like the United States is doing today – and then there was money available to invest. So, it was perfect. We could get the loans to start all the work, to buy the building, and then the next problems started.
One of the people who owned the building was missing. It was very difficult to solve this. It took I think almost two years to solve this. On the other hand, there were tenants.
BLANCA: So the house was owned by a group of people?
KOEN: Yes, it was a family of 7, one of them was missing. The mother was also an owner. A funny detail, at one point we were at the notary and we were with our lawyer, the family had 4 lawyers. Almost every member of the family had his or her own lawyer. There was one lawyer I will never forget. She had pink-orange hair, very thin, big – very large – glasses, a lot of makeup, but everything she said made sense. She had a presence, but she was also a figure. She was eccentric in a good way. At that time, she was older than 90, she came from the Algarve to come here to help the family in a Mercedes Cabrio. I was in love with her. At that time, we were a young couple from Belgium and we felt like we were in a movie. We finally managed to buy the building.
Then we had to deal with the tenants.
In Portugal, if you have tenants and they are over 65 years old you have to either relocate them or make an agreement with them. It is very important if you buy property in Portugal to ask about this. It’s a complicated process, particularly here in Cacilhas where the value of homes is rising. The tenants that were here were paying less than €50 per month in rent, and if you need to find a similar apartment, you’re not going to find it at that price. When you decide to run a project like this, an Alojamento Local in Portugal, these things can happen. It is important that if you purchase property here in Portugal that you keep these things in mind.
BLANCA: You loved your architect. Were they Portuguese architects?
KOEN: It’s funny. We’re from Belgium. We have a friend who is working here as an artist, and we know her from evening Portuguese classes in Belgium. She knew one of the architects. There are two, one is Portuguese, the other is from Belgium. We got to know them and from the beginning, they were so confident, certain. CO-MO Arquitectura was a small practice, they weren’t starting, but they were in the earlier stages of their career, they really wanted to go for it. This was very important because after the waiting process to buy the building, the issues with the tenants, but also with architects it was a little complicated because they always wanted to make things better…but we wanted to move on, but as long as they were making things better, it was hard to move on. It took nine months until they finished.
We also had to go to the Camara because we were in a rehabilitation project where the government helps you with processes. There are other areas like this around, so if you are interested in purchasing a property that is authentic or historic, they will help you. The rules for the program are that you have to keep the facade. The rules are technical. You have to build with comfort in mind and depending on this you get subsidies.
BLANCA: What I see in Lisbon, is that they completely gut the inside and just keep the facade. You didn’t do that. You kept the interior. You renovated what was not working, but you kept the soul of the original building.
KOEN: That for us was very important. We had a lot of support from this division of the Camara and our architects. I think, I really believe because we really wanted to keep the soul, they saw that we wanted to keep the beauty, so they made an extra effort for us because we did it with our heart, with our love. It certainly helped because in Portugal one of the greatest difficulties is bureaucracy. Being a part of this program made things much easier. We only needed to enter three plans, and since our architects were a little bit crazy, they prepared a book, and the person who was responsible for overseeing this project was impressed. He said he had never seen anything like that. This was more than they expected to see. We had maquettes, we had 20 plans, every detail was described, and it was great. Our architects really did a great job. They had a great philosophy and some incredible ideas on what to do with the spaces. It was their idea to do the garden wall. One day they showed us someone else’s projects and told us that if we made the walls a little bit higher, and you keep them all in one color, you will draw all the attention to the garden. All the rest is there and nice, but falls away.
BLANCA: You have achieved a very peaceful feeling. When you sit in the garden it is quiet, the wind comes through, you see and hear the birds, you see the little cat that sits on the ledge. It’s lovely.
KOEN: I don’t know if you already saw it, but sometimes the swallows come by and they drink water from the pool.
BLANCA: How was it dealing with construction firms?
KOEN: To be honest, very difficult. Be very careful with constructors. Make it as clear as possible. Good lawyers, good contracts, add fines if deadlines are not met. Even with all of this, we ran into issues. I think another piece of advice to those looking to construct or renovate a property in Lisbon, we think everyone needs to know about, is that construction companies will take you to former project locations. Everything looks pretty, but it is important to speak with the property owners, something we didn’t do. You need to hear from the owners about their experience with the construction company. You want to ask what went wrong, did they follow the rules, how late was the company. Seeing the work of the construction company is not enough. Things can go wrong in any construction project, but speaking with the property owners can let you know if it was more than normal things that go wrong with a renovation. They can tell you if the construction company takes responsibility for the work or if they minimize their responsibility. With us, it was not. They blamed others, the design. It is very important for you to contact the owner and speak with him or her without the construction company being present so the owner can speak freely.
BLANCA: My two favorite things at Casa René, besides the wooden room are that each unit has its own outside area, we had dinner last night there…and the garden is gorgeous. I heard you had a special consultant to help you with the garden.
KOEN: My mother, who is now 70 years old. She lives in France, but comes two times per year…now with the COVID it is a bit harder, but she adviced us. She really helped us by looking for beautiful flowers, for plants that could provide shade. Our main goal was – since we are from the North – that if someone came, sure there are beautiful flowers all over the world, but we wanted to find local plants, plants that grow outside and are exotic, and as colorful as possible.
BLANCA: I love it. You have bouganvilleas, alliums, the citrus trees – which are so Portuguese.
KOEN: It was a mission. I think the trees are between 50-100 years old. You can see it on the base. It was a mission to find them.
BLANCA: The lemons are HUGE!
KOEN: The lemons are good. They are very fresh, and they are gorgeous. I also have to say, one of the best smells, because I love the smell of flowers and roses, but one of the best smells is the blossom of an orange tree. It is heaven. If you visit Casa René in February or March, it is heaven.
BLANCA: I came here from Lisbon. It took me 10-15 minutes once I got to the Cacilhas station in Lisbon and then a 5 minute walk because you are directly across from the Cacilhas Tourism center. It was super easy to get here from Lisbon. The one thing I noticed with COVID is that – I live in Lisbon, Past Marques de Pombal square, so my area doesn’t really get tourists. Our main draw is the Bullring – I don’t condone bullfighting – but even there there aren’t really tourists by my area. It is really a neighborhood of locals. At the same time, my area now without those tourists, it feels empty. When I go to say, an area like Santos-o-Velho, it feels less Portuguese by the day. Most of my expat friends are there. The Americans are in Santo, the French are in Campo de Ourique. Traditional neighborhoods in Lisbon proper have been I guess conquered by expats – and hey – I have to admit I am part of the problem too – but when you were looking..when did you decide..there’s Cacilhas, there’s Barreiro, there’s Cascais, there’s Belem…there are so many choices. Why did you decide to move to Cacilhas?
KOEN: There are a lot of reasons, but I think it was 2010 or 2011 when they made this street. Before it was just a normal street with cars parked on the street, it was crazy. During that time, the city council decided to make this a pedestrian street. They had a lot of problems with the restaurants, because of the crisis, the construction company doing the work on the street went bankrupt, so the street was open. The Camara had tons of complaints. Also, at that time, because of the crisis, nobody had been going to restaurants so the project could work. Places were empty with 4 waiters. Now, the person who decided this had a vision. Now it is lovely. We had an idea this would turn out good. We used to live in Pragal, it’s a little bit further from here in 2005-2006 – it is near the Cristo Rei. It is then that we learned to love this area. You are very quickly in Lisbon, you are very quickly in Costa da Caparica to go to the beach, surf, or go for a walk, and here it feels real, it feels local. We now have tourists coming to have a meal, but it is still 30% tourists, 70% locals. You feel it in the restaurants. They are serving everybody. You find menus in English, there is a good variety of restaurants, the price, quality, and atmosphere are great. Normally, the red kiosk on Friday evenings (right now with COVID not so much) they do small concerts, they have a DJ, it is all very small living atmosphere. Everyone knows each other. It is a lovely place to live.
BLANCA: It was surprising to me, walking down the street and to see how many people were at the restaurants. The restaurants in downtown Lisbon are really suffering without the tourists, but to me it looks like the area here is doing much better. I walked out further than Cacilhas and I saw the same thing.
The one thing I noticed here is that your place is spotless. I’ve stayed at tons of Airbnbs and looked behind cabinets, under the sink – just because I am nosy – but when I looked under yours, the soap tablets were even perfectly organized and stacked. Everything is perfectly clean. How do you achieve that? I have a cleaning lady and I clean house…my house is never as neat as this place.
KOEN: I love to give compliments but only when they are true. There are two persons responsible for this. First, Ylvi she is the one who arranges communications with our guests, the staff, follow-ups. She does an incredible job. We also have a wonderful lady here, Gabriela, she is from Brazil and she is fantastic. She cares for our home with passion. We have made an effort during these trying times to keep her. Because I think a place like this is built on the efforts of Ylvi and Gabriela. They show you around, help you feel at home. My compliments go out to them.
BLANCA: With COVID, I don’t really want to get on a plane…and Casa René was a perfect place for a staycation for someone living in Lisbon. I took the metro, took the ferry, and was here in minutes. It is a really nice spot for people who live in Lisbon and come to visit and get away after being in quarantine. What would you recommend to Lisboetas and ex-pats who want to explore the area, what would you tell them to see and do in Cacilhas?
KOEN: I think if you are going to come here and have a walk, in this small street to grab a bite to eat…that could be enough for some. If you take a day out, take the boat in the evening and there is a beautiful sunset. You can get up early and see an incredible sunrise. And if you arrive, you can go to the river, there is an area in development where there is some graffiti, but the area is safe. There are two small but amazing restaurants there Ponte Final and Atira-te Ao Rio. Then there are some staircases that you can take up or you can walk a little bit further to the Jardim de Cacilhas with an elevator which is usually open from morning to night, and there is an incredible view of Lisbon. There you have Casa da Cerca – an old Quinta from the 1500s that houses a contemporary art museum. They also have a small bar so you can grab a glass of wine, tea, or a soda; homemade pastries. They have botanical gardens, and the most beautiful view of Lisbon in a nice, calm setting. We really recommend you go there. If you really like to walk, you can go to the Cristo Rei, if you climb it there is a 360-degree view, or you can go back down and it is a little bit adventurous and you can follow the river until you get to an old big farmhouse with beautiful graffiti, but you never feel unsafe. From there you need to pick a staircase, we suggest you pick the white one, it’s not so hard, and you have a steep road up to the Cristo Rei. If you like sports, you can run to the Cristo Rei and from there run down. You can go to the old boatyard and then come back. All while looking at Lisbon from across the river.
BLANCA: I’m shocked at how well Portugal handled COVID. I already know your place is spotless, but what are you doing to get ready for the return of tourists?
YLVI: We achieved the “Clean and Safe” label from the Portuguese Tourism Board. We follow all the rules – all the linen is washed at high degrees, we clean everything that is handled with extra care.
BLANCA: Yeah, I noticed that you have hand sanitizer as soon as you walk in. In my room you left masks and gloves. I think you re perfectly ready. For those of us in Lisbon who have been in quarantine and need to get away from your house (or your better half), this is a wonderful place to get away without going too far. You can spend time reading in the garden, take a swim in the pool – which is huge – how long is that pool?
KOEN: The pool is 16 meters, the main goal since we had space in the garden, since I love pools, to play around with the kids, but I also love to swim. It is nice to be able to get up early to go for a swim, to swim at night (they are lighted) and you really can swim. You can get out, dry in the sun, read, and really relax. It was a long term we had for us.
BLANCA: I am so impressed with the property. I didn’t mention this before, but the apartment where I am staying has two bedrooms, two bathrooms (which is hard to find), there is a fully kitted out kitchen and “my” outdoor terrace. You have done an incredible job. Thank you for the invitation and I will be coming back. But now I’m going to get ready to run into the pool.
Rua Elias Garcia 4
2800-276 Cacilhas (Almada)
Portugal
pt +351 91 91 91 861
be +32 473 42 45 82
[email protected]